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Tom Kyte

Thanks for the question, Sergio.

Asked: November 29, 2003 - 9:38 pm UTC

Last updated: July 23, 2019 - 4:57 pm UTC

Version: 9.2.0.4

Viewed 50K+ times! This question is

You Asked

Hi Tom,

First, i would like to thank you for your site in web. I learn a lot of things with the doubts of my coleages registered in this site. I learn too how to explain to the developers using examples (like you).

Well, i would like to know what do you think about the future of the DBA profession. I read somenthing about the new Oracle 10g version and see that many admininstration tasks now become very easy. Do you think that de DBA job will become so simple that, as others Database products (like SQL Server), don´t need a DBA professional ?

Thanks for the answer (sorry for my english...) !

and we said...


I get this question all of the time.

Let me ask you 4 questions -- then you tell me what the future of the DBA is:

question 1: Have you been told you will be managing fewer applications running against your databases? that is, is your company retiring applications -- desupporting them and not replacing them with something else?

OR

are you finding that every month brings yet another application in addition to the ones your already had to manage?

question 2: Have you been told to give back all of the disk you no longer need since your databases are getting smaller and smaller?

OR

have you been ordering more disk since they are growing and growing?


question 3: Have you been dropping users and not creating new ones? That is, has the base of users dependent on your databases been GROWING?

OR

has it been shrinking?


question 4: The big question. When was the last time someone said to you "hey, its ok if the database is down frequently and for long periods. performance isn't really important either. "



The answers are typically

- i'm getting more applications to manage
- against larger and larger databases
- for more users
- and if it goes down for any period of time or performance tanks, they yell
at me really really loud

with another caveat added

- and they won't increase our staff, we have to do it with the same dba's we
had last year and the year before


So, how do you do that? Well, one answer is "you work more hours" but many of us are already sort of working lots so thats not good. Another answer is "the database automates the mundane tasks that a jr DBA should have been able to do and gives us the tools to be more efficient"

Tuning bad sql. Many times that can be done with a tweak here or there. the DB can do that.

Designing an efficient Schema. That cannot be done by software, requires smart people.

Finding objects that are mostly 'white space' below the high water mark and fixing them. That can be done by a monkey (so the database does it)

Figuring out that if you take this manual 50 step process and turn it into 5 sql statments it runs in 30 seconds instead of 5 hours. That cannot be automated (requires smart people)

I'm not worried about the future of DBA's who are willing to really administer databases and their applications.

I'd be worried about DBA's who want to manage the way we did with version 6 of the database.



(and that last comment about sqlserver cracks me up -- have you ever asked the guy who manages the sqlserver database if they consider themselves a DBA professional?

if they say NO -- ask them how many times they've reloaded their databases, cause they are the ones that don't know about real backup, recovery, fixing, troubleshooting. The databases they manage are not worth anything)

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Comments

Arun Gupta, November 30, 2003 - 3:14 pm UTC

Tom,
What you say about databases growing in size, more database intensive application being deployed, the DBA staff not growing in proportion to the number/size of databases is right, but the impression being conveyed by 10g is that the database will itself take care of growth, tuning etc.

The question here is that if database can tune itself, take care of growth by itself, installation, patching, backup and recovery can be done by untrained staff, what is the need for a DBA?

Though my personal opinion is that no matter what the capabilities of the software and no offense to Oracle, there are always things which a trained DBA can do which are important, the managers who are in the decision making seat do not always see things in the right perspective. It is easy to get carried away by the sales pitch.

Thanks...

less DBA jobs

Ryan, December 01, 2003 - 7:17 am UTC

If you look at the jobs ads there are far, far,far fewer DBA and Oracle Developer jobs available. There is a specific draught in developer jobs. Most positions are low paying temp work.

Salaries have dropped radically. At the same time I see java and .Net positions at a relatively healthy level(though you cant be completely incompetent to get hired any more). The last few projects I have been on have been object oriented applications with Oracle backends.

Employers seem to want skilled Object Oriented developers who know a little bit about Oracle. Then want 1 or a few DBAs and few if any oracle developers. Companies are not interested in oracle developers who can also do object oriented programming.

I think that the people who will stay employed in the future will do one of two things:

1. Be both a developer and a DBA. This is hard to do, but the number of jobs available is small enough that employers can demand both. This increases efficiency of the position. So DBAs will be responsible for keeping the database up, etc... and handling the bulk of the complex PL/SQL, plus helping object oriented developers with Oracle. Most DBAs are pretty weak in PL/SQL and development. Many will have to change or they will see themselves out of work or in lower paying positions.

2. Be both an object oriented and Oracle developer. This is easier to break into if you are coming from the OO world, since few if any employers will give oracle developers the opportunity to do object oriented programming.

Does anyone else have an opintion on this?

hehe... You can always be a COBOL programmer.

Kevin, December 01, 2003 - 11:34 am UTC

Hi, I have been an oracle DBA for uh 20 years maybe? Its true that the traditional DBA function has changed a bit but I didn't like the old DBA job that much anyway. And I have notice also that job posting seems to what so much crap out of somebody that you can't possibly find someone who could "fit the profile". But it doesn't worry me. I am glad to have expanded my horizons to include Modeling and App Development; it has given me a big picture perspective which in the end makes for better data systems. In the old days, the typical life span of an Oracle developer/DBA was 3-5 years. After that they got bored and wanted to do something else (I seem to remember a study done in the early/mid 90's that said this). Guess I was just too thick in the head or too slow to figure that out for myself that I should be changing jobs so just doing it. Anyway, as an "enhanced DBA" I may not make as much as Larry or Bill, but I make more than most people I know, easily into 6 figures, and I have never been out of work a day in my life. My problem ain't finding work, its avoiding it. Just keep current and remember your granddad's advice, find something to do in life for which you have some passion; if you don't like your job/profession then you got the wrong one so get another one, if you do, don't worry cause you'll be good at it and have plenty of work. Also remember this, the last study on installed code bases I saw continues to say: traditional and homegrown business software still makes up the lions share of applications and for true business software, COBOL still has more lines of code out there than any other language (not C, not C++, not JAVA not .NET, not VB, not any of that new crap) so you can always learn COBOL and do maintenance work. Y2K didn't change this.

Well its one man's opinion anyway.

developer support

Stu Charlton, December 01, 2003 - 10:47 pm UTC

I see the need for "developer support" DBAs to be crucial. Most teams don't staff for database experience and suffer for it. The idea of a DBA to help the team use the database effectively is something Tom has advocated for some time and I think is absolutely necessary.

The issue is that this is not really a mainstream idea, it has to be sold, so this isn't a "cookie cutter career" solution yet. But it is an option I've been recommending to talented support technicians and operational DBAs looking to break into something more rewarding (vs. the well-trodden paths of Cisco certification).

It's Developer DBAs and not "developer support" DBAs we use.

Peter, December 02, 2003 - 6:38 am UTC

I work for an outsourcing company and manage several DWH systems for my customers.
In my development group (we develop as well as support) we specifically employ "Development DBA"s. These guys understand development life cycles and how developers think, they are also highly skilled at tuning - for if the warehouse does not fly nobody loves you. System DBAs don't always have the right aptitude to cut it as a developer.

It took a lot of effort to set this group up as the 'services' group traditionally controlled all DBA activity across all supported databases (OLAP & OLTP), but frankly having a part share of DBA does not work if your core task is to build databases. But it is worth it



DBA Developers

Dan Clamage, December 03, 2003 - 10:11 am UTC

I've seen more and more operational DBAs learning PL/SQL and having a huge input/impact into new systems as they're being designed and developed. If the Development team doesn't get a DBA onto their new project early on, they usually suffer for it (unless they have a Tech Lead who is also a DBA).
If you outsource your DBA function overseas, you're missing 80% of the value of having DBAs on hand.

DBA developers

PJ, December 05, 2003 - 4:51 am UTC

Dan

We are both on the same page here.

Although we provide outsourcing to our customers, all our DBAs are based at my location (none overseas). However, the system DBAs are very busy and flit from database to database.

Having dedicated development DBAs works well, especially with DW developments. Having easy access to the system DBAs is a plus - afterall these guys will be running the database when the developers have moved on to the next big project. Easy access = good knowledge transfer.


sql query

srinivas, December 16, 2003 - 1:54 pm UTC

sir
how to select
*
* * *
* * * * *

using an sql query

Tom Kyte
December 16, 2003 - 2:36 pm UTC

i don't even know what that "is"

A reader, December 16, 2003 - 2:49 pm UTC

and what has that do to with this thread ??

To Srinivas

A reader, December 16, 2003 - 3:05 pm UTC

select '    *'||chr(10)||'  * * *'||chr(10)||'* * * * *' from dual;


Connected to:
Oracle9i Enterprise Edition Release 9.2.0.4.0 - 64bit Production
With the Partitioning option
JServer Release 9.2.0.4.0 - Production


'*'||CHR(10)||'***'||CH
-----------------------
    *
  * * *
* * * * *


SQL>

Hope this is what you were looking for, though this is not the right thread for a SQL question. 

Do you want to draw the Christmas tree???

msc, December 16, 2003 - 3:30 pm UTC

Something like this?

SQL> set heading off
SQL> set feedback off
SQL> set pagesize 2000
SQL> 
SQL> select decode
  2         ( sign(floor(maxwidth/2)-rownum)
  3         , 1, lpad( ' ', floor(maxwidth/2)-(rownum-1))
  4           || rpad( '*', 2*(rownum-1)+1, ' *')
  5         , lpad( '* * *', floor(maxwidth/2)+3))
  6  from all_objects
  7     , (select 40 as maxwidth from dual)
  8  where rownum < floor(maxwidth/2) +5;

                    *
                   * *
                  * * *
                 * * * *
                * * * * *
               * * * * * *
              * * * * * * *
             * * * * * * * *
            * * * * * * * * *
           * * * * * * * * * *
          * * * * * * * * * * *
         * * * * * * * * * * * *
        * * * * * * * * * * * * *
       * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
      * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
     * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
   * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
  * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
                  * * *
                  * * *
                  * * *
                  * * *
                  * * *
SQL> 
SQL>  

DBA's of the Future.......

Denise, December 17, 2003 - 1:31 pm UTC

From my own personal experience, and to expand a little on what Kevin said, I believe versatility and diversity of skills will be paramount to roles of future DBA's.

Kevin mentions COBOL..ah yes...I remember those years way back when the IT field was called 'Data Processing' and some of us were programming RPG,COBOL,PASCAL and,how can one forget,BASICA and GWBASIC(with line numbers,GOSUB and GOTO statements).

IT Technology has drastically changed since those years of programming procedural code.IBM was the big guns in those days with their System 34,36 and 38's dominating the industry market share.

Through the years I worked as a computer operator,programmer,and in more recent times,database and application developer(SQLServer 2000) after returning to school to upgrade my programming and IT skills. It was in school where I 'met' Oracle and found my calling. My goal was to become a PL/SQL Programmer...however upon landing my current job after graduation...my role drastically changed to that of a full-fledged DBA(of which I knew nothing about 20 months ago). My responsibilities are 90% DBA and 10% Programming and I learn something new everyday and absolutely love it!.

Being a one person Oracle 'team', that also performs extensive Access and Excel VBA Programming,my Visual Basic Programming(SQLServer project) comes in real handy.

What I'm getting at is that versatility of skills and experience will be key factors in decisions made by employers when they hire for future DBA positions.

I know Tom mentions in his book...DBA's make bad developers and vice-versa...I have to disagree from my standpoint. I am able to bring to my role that part of me that understands application development concepts adding to my newly acquired knowledge of database administration and blend both skills effectively and harmoniously. 25+ years and the learning never stops!!

anyway..for what it's worth that's my 2 cents.













Tom Kyte
December 18, 2003 - 8:47 am UTC

I don't say that do i? I started as "developer dude" and did the dba thing for a while.

I do both.

I actually propose the "database developer" (sort of a triumvirate). DBA, Coders and people that build the database part.

They could be a single person
Or three
Or thirty

But right now, what I see is

DBA's on the left of a wall.
Coders on the right of a wall.
No intermingling of the left and right.

I want to bridge that gap and I think you are basically saying the same thing.

mea culpa..

Denise, December 18, 2003 - 11:35 am UTC

ok Tom...

here's your quote from page 50:

"A good developer is usually a very bad DBA, and vice versa".

True..the key word "usually" infers "not always" but "oftentimes".

Then you go on to state:
"They are two different skillsets,two different mindsets
and two different personalities in my opinion".

Taking yourself as a prime example...doing both DBA
and Developer stuff...perhaps the skillsets,mindsets and
personalities are not that different.

Things are perceived as 'different' when they seem
foreign and not understood...i.e. your reference to the
database as a 'black box' that exists in a vacuum.

For me..I believe my analytical and logical skills enabled
me to quickly train and learn DBA skills.
And I believe this would be true for most developers wanting
to learn and understand DBA stuff...and vice-versa.

so yes...I am on your bandwagon that the DBA-Developer
relationship must and should become interactive and integrated...a point and message clearly emphasized and presented in your book.

;~)







If you can create value, you will have a job....

Jens, December 22, 2003 - 4:37 pm UTC

I think its all about creating value for your company. So:
If spending 80 percent of your time tweaking I/O and tuning creates enough value for your company, then they'll still keep you on the payroll.
However, maybe you would create even more value by spending only 30% of your time doing that, and use the freed up 50% time getting familiar with your companies business processes to find "bottlenecks" there.
Or maybe by staying up to do date on new technology, so you can assist developers and project managers utilising the right tool/technology for the job, let alone recommend *against* going for the latest "hyp-o-magic <put-your-3-letter-abbrevation-her>" which may be very cool, but totally unsuitable compared the good old stuff you know so well..

But then, doing that, maybe you'll no longer be a DBA? Hmmm.. difficult this....



DBA = Superset of Developer

GovindanK, December 24, 2003 - 12:53 pm UTC

>DBA's on the left of a wall.
>Coders on the right of a wall.
>No intermingling of the left and right.

>I want to bridge that gap and I think you are basically saying the same thing.

As a general expectation a DBA should be able to substitute a Developer, atleast for a short period of time or till some other developer is selected to fill the gap. After all , in the moment of trouble, the developer looks forward to assistance from DBAs .. Correct???. Sorry if i this hurts the feelings/sentiments of any developer.

Also, i like the statement by Tom.
>I'd be worried about DBA's who want to manage the way we >did with version 6 of the database.

Well said. Bothers me too.



Great Exchange on "Future of DBA"

William Summerhill, January 03, 2004 - 12:00 am UTC

Very insightful (and inciteful) thoughts on this topic. I've also wondered about the future of the DBA going forward as Oracle continues to push the envelope with respect to automating DBA tasks. Great exchange, and I'm glad that this thread was highlighted on the OTN home page, otherwise, I would have never read it!

Future of DBA

Graham, January 05, 2004 - 7:08 am UTC

The discussion in this thread seems to be largely about how DBAs can become more valuable by expanding their skills into development. However, there is another way in which DBAs can become much more valuable to an expanding company and that is by moving into the often neglected realm of data architecture.
A data architect's remit is usually to investigate and decide what hardware and software needs to be deployed to cater for growth and changes to the business, to research and then to decide how new and emerging technologies (e.g. SAN, 10g, other database technologies, etc.) can best be deployed, and to plan data migration from legacy systems to new systems.
With the skills experienced DBAs will have gleaned from working day-to-day with databases, developers, end-users, and management, they are in an almost uniquely good position to add value to their companies - and CVs - by moving into architecture.

DBA is incomplete without developer

Engr. M. A. Rashid, January 06, 2004 - 6:15 am UTC

You can not realize and understand all problems in a system
without developer knowledge.
Learn developer and then try to digest all of dba. Then you can be king of DBA.

Tom Kyte
January 06, 2004 - 8:50 am UTC

unless of course you just buy software from 3rd parties ;)

The Great Oracle DBA

a-reader, January 08, 2004 - 4:53 am UTC

Reading through this thread, I just coulnt resist contributing to it.
I have been associated with the Oracle Software thru realeases 8,8i (Rel1,Rel2,Rel3) and 9i (rel1 and rel2), since 1999. Initially as an instructor, then as a software developer and finally Now as a Full fledged DBA.

In these years what I have see tnat here, where I come from, DBA is the last leg of the whole show!

I mean most applicatoins are designed (still in the old fashioned way) and implemented and finally the DBA is pressed into service only when some bottleneck shows up!

That is sad!

So even if you know both PL/SQL as well as DBA skills, be sure that one or the other will renmain untapped!
And as far as the job scene is concerned, I feel still companies have not become so broad-minded. The still type-cast the person as "ok he knows how to tune a database, but he is a developer, so I wont let him touch my SYSTEM schema"!

And if you try to position yourself as a person who can offer the best of both worlds, then you end up getting nowhere!!

Because, even though outwardly the companies desire to have a person who is good at both, when it comes to hiring, company talks of having only ONE core skillset and sticking to it.

Lot of growing up is needed on the companies front.

As for the applications themselves, I have see big names in software, not actually using the vast user account management features provided in the Oracle Database!
They invariably create one "super" schema, which has one table called "app_user" or some stuff like that which has all users names and passwords!

But then coming back to the original thread of discussion, offerring a combo-pack of both developer and dba makes sense only in a mature market!



I Can Do 3D, DBA,Developer,Designer, "You name it"

N. POGI (Oracle 9i OCP/DBA), January 16, 2004 - 4:06 pm UTC

This is what we get in terms of Future DBA's ... etc. People esplly from developing countries like India,Pak,bangla and the rest tend to be a Jack of all trades in order to get employed and in order for them to survive. So what's the outcome?
Millions went to US,CANADA accepting low salary. I cannot blame them for being wary about the future since specialty is not their focus but survival.

DBA Jobs

Dan-O, February 09, 2004 - 4:27 pm UTC

What do you need to do to get your resume noticed? I have 5 years of experience with RAC/OPS, backup, recovery, tunning, physical design etc. Still I"ve been sending my resume and nobody is replying. What am I missing?

DBA Jobs

Dan-O, February 09, 2004 - 4:30 pm UTC

I also have developing skills pl/sql; stored procedures; triggers; sql loader.

Application DBA Role

Preet Singh, February 16, 2004 - 1:09 pm UTC

What is the role of an Application DBA? How does it differ from that of a Production DBA. What is the next role into which an Application DBA can move?

Tom Kyte
February 16, 2004 - 1:12 pm UTC

Guess you would have to define your context. Normally, I think of an application dba as one that runs SAP, Peoplesoft, Oracle apps -- they are definitely "in production"

so, you must have some other term/meaning.

Application DBA, Product DBA, and Data Architect

Duke Ganote, February 16, 2004 - 7:15 pm UTC

Probably the best distinction between application DBA, production DBA, and data architect is drawn by Craig Mullins in part 4 of his article "What is a DBA?"

</code> http://www.dbazine.com/dba_4.shtml <code>

Appication DBA Role

Preet Singh, February 17, 2004 - 9:31 am UTC

Thanks Tom and Duke for your quick responses. Tom, I refer to the Ask Tom site almost everyday for looking up answers to various Oracle problems in my day to day work.

The reason for my question was that I had been working as an Oracle programmer/analyst until last year and now I am gradually moving into an application dba role by taking on more and more tasks of this position.

The link provided by Duke is a closer description of my job role as an applicaton dba.

Functional or Technical Knowldege for IT professional

READER, May 07, 2004 - 4:42 am UTC

Hi Tom,

Good thread. I would like to add new dimension to this which I think lot of people may be having same question in their mind.

I am developer + dba from India.I am working for a MNC bank in India.

In my organisation, most of Senior IT people very very strongly beliving that if a senior IT person is having more functional knowldege then technical then chances of his career is bright. ( not only in my organisation but in totality of the IT job market).

While I strongly beliving that as we are in IT professional SO we should be strong in Technical knowledge and functionally we should not think much. Functionally very poor knowledge will also do.( of course, there will not be any question if you are strong in technical and functional both).

What is your opinion about this ? I really want opinion of a person, expert like you and other great pals on this site.

best reagrds


Tom Kyte
May 07, 2004 - 8:28 am UTC

if all you know is technology, how will you talk to your customer?

unless you understand the business, what the goal of your organization is -- you won't be very useful except as the tool of someone who does and who knows how to tell you what to do (that would be the person that understands the business and the technology :)




Functionality vs Technology

A reader, May 07, 2004 - 11:34 am UTC

You have to remember the number 1 asset of any company or organization
is their Data..pure and simple.

Data(good or bad) drives the decision making process.

The tools/technology to store and manipulate the data can be any number
of the various RDBMS..Oracle,Sybase,SQLServer,Access,whatever.

Becoming knowledgable about the Business rules of engagement,logic
and how the data is designed and created to fulfill the goals and objectives
is the most important asset you can acquire for yourself.

On interviews when I am asked if I have any questions I spend that time
asking questions about Business Operations, Goals and future plans...
and how the potential candidate fits into those objectives and plans.
I ask for a copy of their Mission & Philosophy Statement, a copy of their
latest Financial Statements and, if available, a copy of Business Goals
and Proposed Plans. It tells an employer that you are prepared to participate,
train and perform in the future direction of the organization and that
your technical skills are tools towards accomplishing those means.

Asking these types of questions will set you apart from the regular 'techy'
that can only answer technical questions. You then have to be prepared
to "walk the walk".

In my case my organization places my value to them in monetary terms...
not whether I can explain what a rollback segment or redo log does.
By saving the organization approx 25K per year in outsourcing fees
creating and designing in-house Analysis Reports.
It requires a broad knowledge about the data I have to work with.




Tom Kyte
May 07, 2004 - 1:10 pm UTC

well,

<quote>
not whether I can explain what a rollback segment or redo log does.
</quote>

if you were going for a job as a DBA, I would lose interest in you immediately if you could not answer that.

You better understand the technology if you are going to be the person in charge of it.

A reader, May 07, 2004 - 2:28 pm UTC

the answer given was in the context that you already have the proven
technical skills that can be supplied with a textbook answer.

of course I can create a tablespace,a table,a user,a sql statement..etc
along with explaining sql_trace, rollbacks..et al.
I have tons of books that give illustrations,explanations and instructions..
however I don't have one book that describes and explains my organization's data,it's development,design,logic,usefulness and purpose.
Quering the data dictionary only provides the design structure.

Granted some companies/organizations have data flow diagrams..unfortunately
I inherited a system with no such mechanism.


Tom Kyte
May 07, 2004 - 2:47 pm UTC

i was just pointing out that if you cannot answer that question, you won't even be getting in the door. you *seemed* to be saying "doesn't matter if I can explain these most basic database concepts, as long as I'm a good big picture guy". I don't buy that.

You have to nail the technology
And be a good big picture person
Who understands what the business goals/objectives are
And can help them get there

If you want to be that DBA .... Seems we agree on that.

A reader, May 07, 2004 - 3:35 pm UTC

apologies for any misconception given with my answer.
The message behind this thread appears to be DBA's,
in today's marketplace, are finding it more difficult
to land jobs and what does the future hold for DBA's,
who are just that...DBA's.

The last poster commented about those who have technical
skills vs functionality skills and how today's market
favors those who have functionality skills.

My example of the 'value' my organization has invested
in me is not in my DBA skills(which of course is important
since I oversee the monitoring and maintenance of the db)
but in how I can take the existing data and create better,
more efficient comprehensive data analysis that is crucial for management decisions and planning.

I believe that is the driving force in most companies today and that those are the skills employers tend to favor.



Some observations

Michael, May 07, 2004 - 4:24 pm UTC

I started with version 5.1.B on 5 1/4 inch floppies (a lot of them) on an IBM PC. I was bumbling around in various IT jobs when I took a grad course in DB technology in 1983, and decided that being a DBA was what I wanted to do. My project ended and I wangled a spot in the Data Admin dept, not DBA, but under same management. So I learned modeling, db design, etc then got to finally be an Oracle DBA in 1987.

I learned along the way:
- Usually only the best developers become DBAs, but not all of them are GOOD DBAs. I have worked with enough hot dogs who never double check or test anything or check with anyone before rolling things out, and have seen otherwise bright people really screw up a DB. It takes intelligence, concentration, process and detail orientation, anal retentiveness, and other such endearing personality traits to make a good dba. Those traits are AS IMPORTANT as technical skills.
- As some have observed, if you have a DBA who really understands the technology, you are a horse's patooty if you do not bring that DBA into the development process early on. A DBA can absolutely add value in the database design process. A good DBA will be a good database planner.
- Self management features in the DB are welcome. I personally was spending too much time with managing rollbacks, files (now use OMF), computing statistics, etc. I have freed myself from a lot of that grunt work and can now add more value in table design, indexing strategies, etc. We have a large DWH. I replaced an "Enterprise Manager DBA" who used almost all default parameters in the DB, and was pretty much just (barely) keeping the database running. Because of that, I have TONS of work that the Oracle DB and all of its self-management features will not be able to do anytime soon.
- Beware of those holding OCPs. Some are really good. Some are frighteningly bad. My friend, a noted Oracle expert, said an OCP DBA came up and asked him how to startup a database at the unix command line (his pc was being fixed). Two other OCPs told me on the phone they were doing cold backups, but when quizzed they said the database was up at the time. I have heard many other such stories. On the other hand I have worked with some OCPs and they would be great DBAs even without the certificate.
- I have never been really good at PL/SQL or other languages; I never got the programming gene. But there are a lot of other ways to be valuable as a DBA, like never having the DB go down, or return error messages to users, recovering objects (or the entire database) when necessary, helping do logical/physical design, leveraging unix, etc. Right now, in the DWH environment, I am making it a point to master the Analytic Functions added in 8.1.6. Tom has many great discussions on those out here and a terrific chapter on them in the One-on-One book. The users here are currently running some horrible reports that should absolutely be replaced by the new SQL functions. We already have good PL/SQL programmers but they don't know doodly-squat about the Analytics, so it will all fit together nicely. That is the key. Every shop/project is different and requires variations of developer and DBA resources.
- Developer DBAs are fine for small shops, but it often happens that when too much attention is put on the coding part, the DBA part will slide. The guy I replaced as DBA at the last shop was a great coder, but not a very good DBA. Everything was done via OEM and the handy-dandy database configurator. I spent the first two months completely redoing the db environment.
- I am looking forward to 10g, but like all other major release, will wait a while....








Tom Kyte
May 07, 2004 - 6:13 pm UTC

5.1.5b -- I started on 5.1.5c, $99 from Dr. Dobbs Journal.

Small world, I grew up in Bethlehem PA, right down the street.

I like what you have to say.



I Agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A reader, May 07, 2004 - 5:42 pm UTC

Michael i agree.
Your experience speaks for itself.
Certainly Certification can never out do in-depth knowledge and experience. I still have a long way to go. I try go learn by reading articles from Tom and discussions we all share here.
Just keep up the good work.
Thanks Tom and all the rest. :D


Search Does Not Work On Your Site.

Raghu, May 08, 2004 - 4:00 am UTC

Hi Tom ,

Currently no search can be performed on your site.
So through of informing you.

Here is the error i received.

ORA-20000: Oracle Text error: DRG-10800: query failed: DRG-10502: index ASK_TOM.SEARCH_IDX does not exist
Debug:


1: begin
2: declare
3: l_hits number;
4: begin
5: l_hits := ctx_query.count_hits( 'ASK_TOM.SEARCH_IDX', v('P1_CLEAN_CRITERIA'), FALSE );
6: if l_hits > 0 then
7: htp.bold( v('P1_CLEAN_CRITERIA') );
8:
9: htp.bold('Approximately ' || l_hits || ' records found.');
10: end if;
11: end;
12: end;





report error:
ORA-20000: Oracle Text error:
DRG-10599: column is not indexed



Tom Kyte
May 10, 2004 - 6:41 am UTC

thanks, we were rebuilding the index after the system migration from old hardware to new.

optimization

subash, May 08, 2004 - 10:31 pm UTC

Hello Tom,

I am one of the regular reader of your forum.I have
some doubts,please clarify:

1. How to tune the query?

2. How to tune the PL/SQL query ? What are the tools available for tuning?. Best
tool among it?

3. What are all the factors that one should consider, while tuning the query (such as COst,CPU time etc.) ?

4. Whether the Ref. cursor is same as Dynamic cursor ?

5. Different optimization techiques in oracle ,forms and reports?

Thanks a million.....


To "subash from India"

Robert, May 08, 2004 - 10:50 pm UTC


>>I am one of the regular reader of your forum
huh ?
Dude, sure you're talking about THIS forum ???
EVERYTHING you asked has been covered to the wazoos.
Tip: try the search...it really works. Someone took
the trouble to make sure of it.

Sorry Tom, can't help it...

A reader, July 07, 2004 - 3:33 pm UTC

Hey guys
Don't think that DBA job is a bad job. Only thing we should make sure is that our skills are the most paid.

Oracle OCP 9i and 10G exams does indicate future DBA role status ?

parag jayant patankar, September 21, 2004 - 12:28 pm UTC

Hi Tom,

I know your opinion about future DBA's role, Your opinion is that you see DBAs are in one corner of a room and developers in opposite corner of a room. ( Correct me If I am wrong )

I have heard that for Oracle 10g there are only 2 OCP exams while in Oracle 9i there are 4 papers for OCP. Do you think it is indicating our DBA's role getting reduced with less bright future ?

thanks & best regards
pjp

Tom Kyte
September 21, 2004 - 1:26 pm UTC

<quote>
I know your opinion about future DBA's role, Your opinion is that you see DBAs
are in one corner of a room and developers in opposite corner of a room.
</quote>

that is not my opinion of the future. That is a broad stereotype that is widely applicable today, in the present.


I do not follow anything OCP. I don't know if 2 vs 4 is "good bad or indifferent"

What about this sort of future

Hans Wijte, October 14, 2004 - 2:40 am UTC

Hi Tom

I just read this :

</code> http://www.dbazine.com/burleson28.shtml <code>

What's your opinion on it ?

Best regards,

Hans

Tom Kyte
October 14, 2004 - 9:53 am UTC

only time will tell -- sounds sort of like what I was saying here in a way.

The future as it might be -- just read two books, one was backwards looking and the other is forwards looking. If Kurzweil got it partially right -- well, read and see for yourself :)

backwards
</code> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0738200301/

forwards
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0140282025/ <code>



But -- the day of the version 6 DBA is over, regardless of where the hardware is at/does.

Wow......

denni50, October 14, 2004 - 12:38 pm UTC

..read some of the excerpts from Kurzweil's book.

"neural implants to improve our sensory experiences, perception, memory, and logical thinking."

Have virtual reality experiences with other people anywhere,anyplace and anytime.

Intelligent machines that will far surpass the human brain. The ability of human like machines to share and pass information/knowledge to one another.

"And through nanotechnology, which is the ability to create physical objects atom by atom, they will have human-like -- albeit greatly enhanced -- bodies as well. Having human origins, they will claim to be human, and to have human feelings. And being immensely intelligent, they'll be very convincing when they tell us these things."

Carbon based physiobiology becoming obsolete...possibly extinct??

hey...I'm ready to get rid of this 'old' body.

This book is a definite must read.



Tom Kyte
October 14, 2004 - 7:30 pm UTC

I did find it scary yet exciting...

one last comment....

denni50, October 15, 2004 - 9:35 am UTC

I wish I was being born a hundred years from now.

Imagine the implications..space travel(no more worries about keeping the biology working)...we could travel far beyond the outer most reaches of the galaxy and possible other galaxies...looking for other worlds to colonize if we are to prevent ourselves from becoming extinct on a planet that is slowly dying from the ravages of human activity(diminishing resources,pollution,climatic changes).

social/economic:
Impact on food Production(will we need any kind of "food" for sustenance?)
Health: no more diabetes,heart disease,mental deficiencies,disabilities, the list goes on.
School System: will we only need to wire our brains to a central/neural computer and download all the knowledge/information that is available.

Heating/Cooling: no need to keep our "bodies" warm in winter, cool in summer.

Ideology/Individualism: Aldous Huxley's "Brave New World".

Tom Kyte
October 15, 2004 - 11:55 am UTC

and sometimes I think - it would have been cool 100 years AGO. Imagine the implications

o no network (especially wireless ones on the road)
o no computers
o no phones
o no airplanes
o no television


:)

Here's one about Programmers...

reader, October 15, 2004 - 10:39 am UTC

No diseases in the future?

Bob B, October 15, 2004 - 1:51 pm UTC

This Q&A is going in a weird direction, but I figured I'd toss in a couple cents.

I highly doubt that those diseases you mentioned will be gone. More than likely, life will be closer to the matrix, but instead of large clanky robots sapping the life out of us, it will be large clanky corporations. And the large clanky corporations will make us pay them to do it!

We probably have the technology right now to cure these diseases, but as Chris Rock said, "The money's not in the cure, the money's in the disease."

Future is in your own hands

Goth, November 02, 2004 - 5:41 am UTC

A true Oracle person cannot have any problem at all doing the job of a DBA or a developer or a designer with equal ease. Otherwise, he/she does not deserve to be called an Oracle-person and should really look at an easier way to while away life.
In fact any person is capable of doing any job if he/she has the will to do it. True, aptitude counts but it cannot replace determination. It may take some time to learn new things, but learn anyone can.
So what if DBA-roles become irrelevant, find something else.
Anyway, only an utterly foolish organisation will claim they do not need a single Oracle-DBA whilst still using an Oracle-database. If the jobs go overseas, then you go overseas too!.. Indians and Chinese have been doing that, Europeans have done it in the past, so can anyone else.

True, Oracle is introducing things to ease the burden on DBAs. True also that development interfaces are getting smarter and easing the developer's work. However by its very nature, the software/IT industry will keep getting injected with new requirements and possibilities. That much is inevitable. So look ahead and despite of agesim/sexism/racism, you'll always have possibilities.



Database Baby Sitting

Sai, December 01, 2004 - 1:01 am UTC

Hi
I am a DBA (not OCP) and I am working with Oracle from 1996, started as Developer.
DBA is a Technical Person and should know the Business. DBA should know PL/SQL, SQL, DA, DW. (I don’t know DW). Database Baby Sitting is over with Oracle 7.
(God! you saved me). You can tune the Database… but without Business knowledge, without PL/SQL skill how do you tune a bad performance Application’s sqls, Back-end objects, pl/sqls. I tuned a very bad pl/sql process [fire the Developer! :-) just kidding] which was running for 2 hours. [I have lot more to tune :-( ]. Without the Business knowledge, I could not redesign and tune this process to run in 10 min. My point is as DBA you should know the Business. Well, if you are working in a MNC with 5-500 DBAs, and have no chance to know the Business, if you still like the job/pay slip then continue, if not search for another employer.

DBA - is quite a job

Abigail, January 15, 2005 - 10:33 am UTC

Hi folks,

This thread has opened up many queries which were ringing in my mind. However, I am a programmer and now in the implementation and maintenance phase of the application developed by us(our team). In this phase I would like to know whether there is any way, to initialise values to the no of sesssions that Oracle will support. If so where do I get to define it. For I find sessions, getting created in a random, most of which are idle, and are killed once the application is closed. I dont find anything wrong with the application. I guess there is something I need to do with the Oracle Server. COuld somebody tell me how to go about this, and means to go about this, as this is a gripping need of the hour, when it comes to the fact that all users use the application at the same time, which causes a bottleneck.

Thnx guys

Tom Kyte
January 15, 2005 - 4:04 pm UTC

sessions are created and destroyed by clients -- not by oracle. if you find rogue sessions - they are the applications issue, not the databases.


I don't know what you mean by "to initialise values to the no of sesssions that
Oracle will support."

are you using VB/ODBC?

excellent

aman, January 16, 2005 - 6:23 am UTC

sir
recently i have been told by a very senior person who is working in a very big fortune 500 company that being into database alone wont help me getting anywhere.he said that i must have to do Java (that to in a way way advance way like J2ME and all sort of that of stuff.he said all the major tools in developer too are getting changed in java and the oracle forms will be totally obsolete in coming some years.my point was that all this java ,.net and any other languages they are meant only and only for validations and front end design.they are of no use if there wont be a database having some data atleast in it to be used by these fancy looking languages and screens.and( its been now a little time too that i am with oracle database field always wanted to be and yes will be too )thenthey must need atleast one good dba for it that would be me someday for sure.then why i must change my line and instead of furnishing my skills on database with whatever in the concept manuals ,yours boooks(i got one sir Espert one on one ,cudnt get the second yet),this site and from my labour ,why i shudnt do this instead of getting into the line of the learning the tools which are going to be obsloelte after some time as you mentioned somewhere that after every 4-5 years there is a new prgramming paradigm and one new O/S .i said i will stay with database .he said its a career suicide.i want your comments sir.
thanx


Tom Kyte
January 16, 2005 - 11:37 am UTC

Java is just a language.

C++ was going to literally rule the world.

Expert Systems and backwards chaining rule systems (also known as "AI") were going to spell the death of procedural languages and the way software was developed.

In 1990, any magazine you read would have told you "in 2005, programmers won't be writing code, for you see, all code that needs to be written will have been written and we'll be assembling massively large applications from components" (hah)

Ada was going to be the only language you could program in to sell to the US government.

Portals were going to be the end of web development, what else would you need?

What about the windows platform? It isn't all about Java.

Most of the code in the world today is not Java (it is cobol but that's another problem).

anyway, at the end of the day -- you have to evaulate that advice personally, yourself. I happen to not agree with it, that is my 2cents worth.

Not that "just knowing the database" is enough -- I started as a programmer, become database over time. You do need to understand the big picture -- everything that is available.

Thanx for replying

Abigail, January 16, 2005 - 7:56 am UTC

Hi tom,
I am using VB/ODBC as you guessed. The sessions do get created randomly, and get killed once the applications are closed. I wanted to know whether there is some way by which i could trace where and how this is done. I checked with the application(VB codes) and dont find any clue. So I thought there would be means for me to change certain parameters in the init.ora file. wat you suggest. Is this wat I should do or I should still more scrutinise in the codings, for I have found that authentic sessions creation are 4 per application usage. Your advice will be many a help.
thanx


Tom Kyte
January 16, 2005 - 11:40 am UTC

The developers are the ones that need to track this down. It is a side effect of ODBC being the native API of a perculiar database -- and not Oracle, DB2, Informix, or the others.

The application developers need to get a little more "in tune" with the application API's they are using.


ODBC is opening multiple sessions for support of "record sets" and other stuff -- a situation that is necessary in a certain database with weak cursor support, but totally NOT desirable in *any* of the others.

Otherwise, set sessions higher and higher and buy more hardware.



debate going on

jsm, January 16, 2005 - 11:42 pm UTC

its always said that after releasing 10g DBA's role has become limited.
also now APP's dba's are in more demand and the next best thing will be Datawarehosing DBA's.
I am core DBA and want to work as app's or dw dba.
which will be best choice acc to you TOM.


Tom Kyte
January 17, 2005 - 7:47 am UTC

which one makes you happier.

if you don't know that answer, then you must try both.

Sessions - initialisation in spfile

Abigail, January 17, 2005 - 3:22 am UTC

tom,

I have checked with the oracle server - enterprise manager console and have found the following under the Configuration -> All Initiallization parameters-> under Running file I found the processes to be 1900 and sessions to 1900*1.1 +5=2095. But in the SPfile I find the processes to be 1900 and sessions=500(only). Is it bcos of which there is a bottleneck when many users log on at the same time. If this is the problem will putting this to 2095 ease the situation. Any suggestions.. tom.
thanx in advance.

Tom Kyte
January 17, 2005 - 8:34 am UTC

bcos? the Merriam Webster site says:

The word you've entered isn't in the dictionary. Click on a spelling suggestion below or try again using the search box to the right.

Suggestions for bcos:

1. baulks
2. buckoes
3. because
4. bookies
5. backhoes
6. bouquets
7. backhouse
8. BCDs
9. bosk
10. busk
11. BCS
12. bosque
13. boos
14. bios


I'll guess #3, seems to make the most sense.



sessions is set by processes here. sessions is 1900+.

The problem is you have applications creating many sessions for a single user, you need to figure out how many sessions you need to have configured for your database and configure it that way.

Or fix the application that is creating more than one session per user, so you can get back tons and tons of resources like memory and CPU.

thanx sir

aman, January 17, 2005 - 6:25 am UTC

sir thanx alot.i am so sorry but i am still not able to get the exact idea.you said you are not agree to it.please clarify a bit more about it.did you mean by saying that its worth to get an expert knowledge about Java and Advance Java besides having the knowledge of Oracle Database?
Yes sir i know that "just knowing the Database" is not enough as there is lots more happening otherwise.What my point was that Oracle is enhancing the database a lots in so many fields which invloves so many topics that are tightly bound to exclusively to database.I said and decided that yes i will definately have the knowledge of whatsoever is happening in the IT world but the core area of focus will be the Database and all the technlogies emerging from the database be it B/R or P/T or anything in advanced fields of secuirty and data modelling or desgining etc.this is what i have decided for myself and said to that person too.Is it a right choice for career at this point when iam a newbie?
thanx alot for your guidance and support.you are the best


Tom Kyte
January 17, 2005 - 8:37 am UTC


I'm saying that Java is just a language.

And next year there will be yet another "great new language that will save the world". Just like Lisp, smalltalk, Ada, C++ and everything else should have.

but I'm pretty sure that the need to persist data in a scalable, secure, portable environment will still exist.

Tom...

denni50, January 17, 2005 - 8:43 am UTC

you wrote:

"Most of the code in the world today is not Java (it is cobol but that's another problem)."

I thought most of today's apps where written in 'C'...
you even mention PL/SQL being translated into 'C' from
the JVM.

You mean COBOL is still in use today?

off question:
has the ASCII table changed from 4 years ago.
I was reviewing a program in 'C' that I did for a
class project(TIC TAC TOE game) 4 years ago...when
I ran the .cpp executable the dec(200) that I used
to create the board grid no longer applied I had
to go online and look for the ascii chart and changed
it to dec(195)...which gave me the correct character
for my board that I assigned in a [3][3] array.

I like 'C'....'C' RULES!



Tom Kyte
January 17, 2005 - 8:50 am UTC

is cobol still in use today -- absolutely. most of the existing legacy systems out there (and that is what runs the world right now -- many new age web front ends-- they just product data that is fed into the real system for order processing, etc -- those systems, they are not written in java typically)


dec(200) is not part of ASCII. ASCII is a 7bit encoding scheme. 0..128. Anything above 128 was "extended" and totally specific to the client you were running on.


</code> http://www.infogoal.com/cbd/cbdz040.htm <code>


thanks Tom...

denni50, January 17, 2005 - 9:07 am UTC

that explains it....yes it is the 'extended' ascii chart.
wow...I was blown away about COBOL...but I guess if
you think of it...the large mainframes from the 70's
amd 80's still in use today(I would imagine many
military systems)...would still be using COBOL.

I guess procedural code still rules the world!


Tom Kyte
January 17, 2005 - 10:02 am UTC

(psst -- most java I see is procedural code)

COBOL

Dan Malumphy, January 17, 2005 - 10:34 am UTC

Actually where I work, we still develop in COBOL. Unfortunatly the precompiler hasn't really changed since Oracle 8 and as a result it is difficult to get the programers to learn and use features such as analytics. But it certainly does the job and does it well.
As far as the DBA job in the future, I am also the SAN administrator, so that keeps me busy for part of the day.


Database Performance Study

denni50, July 05, 2005 - 1:33 pm UTC

Got the following link from the DBA-Village subscription I receive weekly via email. The document offers some really good strategies for troubleshooting db performance issues, not just Oracle but DBMS in general.

Provides some good insight/scenarios on planning for DBA interviews.

Some interesting SQL Tuning examples were explored and tested.(learned some new SQL coding techniques)

Thought this would be of use and help to those that have concerns/questions about the future of database mgt.


</code> http://www.umsl.edu/divisions/business/mis/bov/TuningPaperV5.pdf <code>

it seems like, better to join Oracle Corporation

Naveed, October 06, 2005 - 4:05 am UTC

hi all,
After reviewing most of the comments, I think its better to learn the language (I think its C or Visual C) in what oracle is being developed day-by-day.


Tom Kyte
October 06, 2005 - 7:47 am UTC

why?

DataWarehousing OR ORacle Apps OR Oracle DBA ?????

Anuj, October 29, 2005 - 8:52 pm UTC

Hi,
I have been following this thread for some time now.
I am in a FIX of my life.

I am still young I work as .NET developer. I fell .Net development is more like developing a Front End Now days.

I want to change my line but I am very confused whether to go for:-
1. Data Warehousing (Informatica , Cognos)
2. ORacle Apps
3. Oracle DBA

I am planning to take formal training in any one of these.
Can you suggest me where should I go what is best way to go.

Looking for comments from all you people.

Thanxxx

Tom Kyte
October 30, 2005 - 3:56 am UTC

well, #3 would be a good background for #2 or #1....

but at the end of the day - no one can tell you which to do. What is your personality, what do you like to do, what makes you get out of bed in the morning?

That will be the only thing that can tell you which path you should seriously explore.

DW / Oracle Apps Or DBA

A reader, October 30, 2005 - 1:50 pm UTC

Thanx sir for replying.

I like to write Code since doing a repetitive sort of job dont really motivate me.
I was looking at Data Warehousing tools I am not really sure what is the future in them.
Oracle Apps looked to be a good choice but I feel DataWarehousing is more paid.
As reading with this Thread Oracle DBA dont look to be the best option to start since DBA job is becoming more and more automated.
Can you tell me how good is SAP as a choice.

Thanx

Tom Kyte
October 31, 2005 - 5:06 am UTC

If money is you primary goal..... Become a Doctor :)


I have no opinion on whether you should work with SAP, Oracle Apps, or whatever - depends on your region, your opportunities and your interests.

A reader, January 29, 2006 - 7:58 am UTC


Tom wake me

Jay, March 03, 2006 - 11:44 am UTC

Hi, I'm a Developer, with 3 or 4 years of experience only.. and this site, and Tom books, open my eyes widely.
There are sooo many people work as DBA that as 0 idea of how oracle is running, or obsolete. I made and saw incredible errors bugs, bad database tuning and configurations, etc... and don't know the reasons, think in green dwarfs inside the server, its terrible, its like 'oh.. this crash, and I never know why, only hope that this error don't happen never again!!'
Now, I have things much clear. I want know all about Oracle, how works, testing cases, share this with collegues.
Thanks to all for this great site and for sharing knowledgements with people like me. I'm hope I could some day be a good developer, dba, or something else.

dba job is in trouble

Anurag, March 24, 2006 - 9:52 am UTC

Dear Tom,

Well, as per Oracle 10g, How Oracle is marketing, I afraid there is a threat to oracle dba's. Just see how oracle is marketing at
</code> http://www.oracle.com/index.html <code>

under title
Oracle Database 10g Manageability Saves Time, Cuts Costs
".....Study reports Oracle can save businesses up to US$32K per DBA every year....."

Well, don't you think, Oracle is in future direction to create database as self dba-tasks-managed.


Anurag


Tom Kyte
March 24, 2006 - 10:03 am UTC

don't worry - for every one thing that is automated, 5 more new features that require some degree of care and feeding come along with it.

Spell it out there!

A reader, March 24, 2006 - 10:58 am UTC

They don't say that, though. Or is there a fine print somewhere?

spell it out...?

Duke Ganote, March 24, 2006 - 12:01 pm UTC

Why spell it out? Historically, it's "obvious" that better tools don't eliminate work. More tedious and repetitive tasks get automated (how many of us write assembler?), but that hasn't eliminated programmers. Every reduction of tedious work means an opportunity to invest time in more productive features. (Not that there aren't ups and downs in every job market).

Why do features grow and work never ends? Fundamentally because
‘There are no simple objective answers to complex subjective questions’
</code> http://www.gse-nordic.org/forum/wg/nrtc/2005/S21_DontBeADb2BadGuy.pdf <code>

What should i do to become a best dba?

Orakle_Lover, March 24, 2006 - 12:58 pm UTC

I wanted to know .

How can i be the best DBA in the feature?
In what areas i should concetrate to become a best DBA?

I just wanted to be with oracle Database side only(not application products side).

Thanks.

Please bear in mind ,your answer is going to direct my feature life.
I started my dba career(Of course this is my first job) from last 6 months! Exactly 6 months and 4 days!!!
Thanks

Tom Kyte
March 24, 2006 - 3:57 pm UTC

what about PHB's

Dilip Patel, March 24, 2006 - 1:52 pm UTC

Tom,
I don't have any problem with new oracle 10g slogan and I fully understand that it gives DBA's a chance to explore/spend time with other advanced features. But what about some pointy haired bosses who seem to think that DBA's are just no longer needed. Especially after his meeting with oracle marketing team. The correct slogan would have been "Do more, Gain more" instead of "Do same, Lose DBA's".

Thanks,

Dilip.

DBA Job

A reader, March 24, 2006 - 2:12 pm UTC

I think demand for old kind of DBA job is history. Companies do not need more than 1 DBA just to manage database(means just create database, take back up etc and not invove in application development process)
What companies will look for is application DBAs, who actively involve in application design, performance tuning , write stored procedures etc..


To A Reader above

Dilip Patel, March 25, 2006 - 1:13 pm UTC

To A Reader above:

Companies do look for applications design, perfermance tuning, PL/SQL, System admin skills in a DBA even now, Don't they?

Tom Kyte
March 25, 2006 - 3:03 pm UTC

indeed they do.

DBA Job

A reader, March 26, 2006 - 10:50 am UTC

"To A Reader above:

Companies do look for applications design, perfermance tuning, PL/SQL, System
admin skills in a DBA even now, Don't they? "

Of course yes. But I have seen in many projects DBAs just create database and never involve in application development. I am working on J2EE project and DBA's role in this project is to create database and create users. Developers deside tables, relationships,indexes etc. Developers write stored proceudres, tune sql statements etc.. DBAs have no idea about the application. I have seen this situation in all my previous projects. So, what I meant to say was, Companies will hire more developers with database knowledge than DBAs.



question?

A reader, April 14, 2006 - 9:55 am UTC

What is Oracle's advanced technology solutions? What exactly they (probably consultants) do in this area?

Can a person with limited experience in RAC installations, capacity planning can handle this role?


Tom Kyte
April 14, 2006 - 12:40 pm UTC

ATS is a services group within Oracle - yes. Most of them would not be "hands on installers" - but rather implementors of solutions (middle tier, applications, database). It is a rather broad mix of skills, so "yes"

Oracle Apps

Gaurav, April 14, 2006 - 1:39 pm UTC

Hi Tom,
I have an overall experience of 4+ years and worked on unix/windows admin and have done OCP myself and did the practicals myself.At present,my organisation is giving me an opportunity to work on Oracle Apps.

Could you pls guide me whether i should look for an Oracle DBA job since they do not have Oracle DBA position vacant or should i take Oracle Apps opportunity within the present organization.Also pls let me know which one has got more demand in terms of salary/Employment in USA.
Pls clarify my doubts and let me know if i would take a right decision to opt for Oracle Apps.
Thanks a lot in anticipation.Waiting for an earliest response

Tom Kyte
April 14, 2006 - 1:56 pm UTC

do you like

a) being a technical oracle DBA
b) being a technical APPLICATIONS DBA

what do you *like* to do.

I'll never answer this question from the perspective of anything else - other than "what makes you get out of bed in the morning"

Dilip Patel, April 15, 2006 - 5:39 pm UTC

"But I have seen in many projects DBAs just create database and
never involve in application development. I am working on J2EE project and DBA's
role in this project is to create database and create users. Developers deside
tables, relationships,indexes etc. Developers write stored proceudres, tune sql
statements etc..
DBAs have no idea about the application.
I have seen this
situation in all my previous projects. So, what I meant to say was, Companies
will hire more developers with database knowledge than DBAs. "

I dont disagree that there are such DBA's and such applications. But If DBA's have no idea about the application they manage, Then God help. Those applications are destined for failure.

application and DBA work

Ryan, April 18, 2006 - 10:53 pm UTC

I would think that a valuable person would be someone who is very good with databases and can code an application language(right now java and .net dominate the market). However, it appears that employers are only interested in the opposite. Someone really good with java or .net who can get by with databases.

Now to pull off what I suggest you have to be senior with the application language. I am concerned that some employers would immediately coin me a 'jack of all trades'.

Most shops these days are hybrid shops(java, .net, or something else plus oracle). I find that the oracle people don't know anything about the application(many won't even turn it on and use it by clicking on screens) and the application developers don't know anything about databases.
I find that people talk through each other and recite cliches.

What are your opinions on this? How does this work at Oracle? I saw that Oracle has hiring a bunch of java developers in Sterling, VA. How much do the java developers at Oracle know about the database?

I jumbled alot of questions, however, its all somewhat related.

consultant,

A reader, May 05, 2006 - 1:02 pm UTC

Just curious to know the future of consultants.
How people would consider consultants as compared to regular full time DBA's if the consultants try to apply for a new job?

In general what are the pros and cons of being a Oracle consultant with regard to career growth, learning opportunities and going up the corporate ladder?

Thanks,


followup,

A reader, May 09, 2006 - 2:27 pm UTC

If you have a chance could you answer to the question with regard to "consultants".

I am sort of confused due to unable to picture myself in the next 2 years as Oracle consultant.

thanks,

Tom Kyte
May 09, 2006 - 4:37 pm UTC

I don't really have a comment - it would be so specific to your geographic region, your skill set, your temperment, what YOU wanted.

I wouldn't necessarily hire a consultant to be a DBA for me (why? I'd either want the person to work for me, as an employee, with all of the interest of an employee - or I'd out source it to someone - a consultant would be fairly pricey for something you need 24x7)

A consultant moves up their OWN corporate ladder, you are not part of anyone elses corporate ladder but your own (or your consulting firms and they don't necessarily have a ladder to climb...)

thank you,

A reader, May 09, 2006 - 5:19 pm UTC

but what if I join Oracle corporation as oracle consultant?

Here I am an employee of oracle corp but work as consultant to their different customers.



Tom Kyte
May 10, 2006 - 7:27 am UTC

Then you would have the "ladder" of either

o being a consultant
o going into management
o looking at one of the other of dozens of divisions within the company if that
interested you after networking and making contacts.

which would not be any different from any other company really.






Technical DBA

pjp, May 10, 2006 - 12:36 am UTC

Hi Tom,

you said "
do you like

a) being a technical oracle DBA
b) being a technical APPLICATIONS DBA

what do you *like* to do.

I'll never answer this question from the perspective of anything else - other than "what makes you get out of bed in the morning" "

I 100% agree with you. That what makes you get out of bed in the morning person should do.

In "ORACLE TECHINCAL DBA" what you will advise me who have done OCP and having total 10+ years of IT experience including 4+ years of DBA. Bascially I would like to know suppose I am at same geographical area and having same temprement like you what skills I should consetrate more to become "ORACLE SPECALIST" in future and keeping me "HOT" in job market in current future ?

thanks & regards
parag j patankar


Depends on the mindset

A reader, August 08, 2006 - 2:30 pm UTC

DBA's seem to have a more perfectionist’s mindset whereas
Developers are more creative. DBA’s need not worry worry
Too much, there are lots of other similar skills/roles they can carry Out, for eg : the place where I work the DBA’s administer the app servers also some of them administer linux & local NW. Sw will get more complex in the future requiring more admins than required before.




Tom Kyte
August 09, 2006 - 10:02 am UTC

I'm not sure I would call all developers "more creative" - laughing out loud.

</code> http://oracle-wtf.blogspot.com/ <code>

And I surely wouldn't call DBA's perfectionists in general either.

What´s your oppinion about the Java job in the future?

mnf, February 24, 2007 - 5:13 pm UTC

hi Tom,

the previous matters that are listed above .. about Dba ,

then,What´s your oppinion about the Java job in the future

thanks in advance,


Tom Kyte
February 26, 2007 - 1:14 pm UTC

flash from the future:

....
programmers are still needed, having experience in the legacy programming language known as java will be useful, since experience in general is useful. We'll be able to train you in the last language ever to be used "X"
........

that statement is probably true, except for the last bit about the last language, as every language is thought to be the last one - and it never is.

???

mnf, February 26, 2007 - 5:35 pm UTC

i am sorry,
i am not mean java only , i mean oracle with java

and there are a question about joining oracle with java :

i want to type class that return array ,
and I control of it in oracle procedure row by row
with package "dbms_output.put_line" ...

please , how can i do that ??????

first,I type the following is sqlplus :-

SQL> create or replace java source name "demo"
as
public class demo {

public static int[] returnarray {
int[] nums = null;

for (int i = 0; i <= 5; i++) {
nums[i] = i;
}

return nums;
}
}
/

java created


and then,

i type the following but it fail ,I'can't .....
create or replace procedure retnums
as
loop
exit when .........;
java language 'demo.returnarray return nums'
end loop;
end;
/

thanx
Tom Kyte
February 27, 2007 - 10:13 am UTC

what is "oracle with java"

java is just a programming language, you can write stored procedures in java, you can write java code outside the database to access oracle - it is just a language, nothing "special" about it.


....
i want to type class that return array ,
and I control of it in oracle procedure row by row
with package "dbms_output.put_line" ...
..........

that doesn't really "compute" to me - I did not follow what it was you were trying to do?

I think though you are trying to discover how to pass arrays back and forth? If so:

http://asktom.oracle.com/pls/ask/search?p_string=%22create+or+replace+package+demo_passing_pkg%22



these makes sense to brdge between REAL DBA and DEVELOPER

reader, April 21, 2007 - 2:00 am UTC

Coming to here, this thread is very interseting and most have impartance in knowing the.. that's why
WHO having the following..!
Implementation of efficient databases, including specifying physical characteristics especially by designing efficient indexes,which mostly done by the REAL ARCHITECT(the poor design might be reason for PERFORMANCE DEGRADE which is oftenly complained by the AD's)
* and *
assigning the appropriate schema level authorities which is morever EFFICIENT DATA MODELOR skills(i.e easy data access and modification of requirements to ensure efficient SQL) would be the actual req's for the GAP to be filled between them.

this upto my personal opinion
any coments will be appreciated

from Oracle to finance....

A reader, March 18, 2008 - 2:14 pm UTC

It has been a long journey so far in Oracle and the technical aspect of Oracle is still my favorite and hungry to learn more tips and tricks.
However, when it comes to performance tuning, there are so many factors that could cause the application to run slow. The people generally wants to "talk" rather than figuruing out what the problem is. I have seen people who are working in Oracle DBA/developer for many years but not clear about what "logical IO" is.

Convincing people in work places or even customers to think simple and understand the basic concepts, they don't seem to like the discussion. They infact prefer to talk more on servers, CPUs, hardware/storage, etc. I agree those are very important for Oracle database to run efficiently, but ignoring the basic concepts of Oracle is like "building high rise buildings without good foundation"

I am really fed up.....

Coming to my question now... I have started reading finance and investment with economics and statistics too. I am finding it interesting. I want to get into that line very seriously, but at the same time, I don't want to say goodbye to Oracle.

With the combination of oracle and finance, how good the opportunities are to work as Oracle financials consultant with more emphasis on functional aspect?

Appreciate your time on this.

Thanks,

Tom Kyte
March 24, 2008 - 9:14 am UTC

.... With the combination of oracle and finance, how good the opportunities are to
work as Oracle financials consultant with more emphasis on functional aspect?
...


I do not work in that space myself, but the combination of Oracle experience (development, DBA) and the functional knowledge to perform the implementation - would be a good one, it would have definite advantages - what you would need to add to that mix would be experience, meaning you are sort of starting over, near the bottom, and working your way up - not that that is bad mind you, just that it will be a fact

SQL Server Comment

Ken, June 03, 2008 - 10:08 am UTC

The originator of this thread wrote:

"Do you think that de DBA job will become so simple that, as others Database products (like SQL Server), don´t need a DBA professional?"

I don't want to start another Oracle vs. SQL Server battle. There is an excellent thread in AskTom that tackles that question using actual facts which mainly speak to the deficient architecture of SQL Server. I want to speak to the manageability of SQL Server.

I am fortunate (and unfortunate) to have intense experience in SQL Server, Sybase (which is SQL Server's Father), and Oracle. I guarantee you that SQL Server is not easier to administer than Oracle. If anything, it is more troublesome. Here are my top 5 reasons that SQL Server is more difficult to administer than SQL Server (I haven't given this much thought...this is off the top of my head...but it gets close to the heart of the matter, I believe):

5. Read consistency model causes a tuning nightmare and is the source of a lot of performance dead-ends. If the nature of the app dictates that consistent reads are required, there will be much heartache and many headaches caused by locking. The DBA will be a central figure in finding the problems, diagnosing the causes, and trying to come up with solutions (along with the developers).
4. The transaction log in SQL Server contains undo and rollback information. This is a tremendous bottleneck that can kill OLTP performance when a large transaction log backup is must be taken. This is actually a non-issue when everything else is running right. But if your backup system decides to take a vacation and a transaction log gets big before it can be backed up, you (the DBA) will be on the hot seat. You must keep your whole backup system, top-to-bottom, working perfectly at all times. In Oracle if your backup system takes a powder and after you fix it you have to play catch-up, there is no performance penalty.
3. SQL Server statistics are a royal pain in the rear-end. We have some indexes that must have statistics run every 5 minutes or we will have 500 paying customers sitting on their hands waiting for response time. No big deal, I guess, but finding which indexes need this is not a trivial matter.
2. In the immortal words of Bill Gates (speaking about SQL Server scalability): "We don't scale up. We scale out." So rather than having one Oracle DB sitting on one Unix box serving thousands of customers, you have 15 SQL Servers sitting on 15 Windows boxes to try to get the same performance. Scaling out is definitely NOT the road an organization can take if it wants to simplify its database environment and rid itself of the wasteful overhead costs of the slothful DBA.

And the number 1 reason (in my mind) why SQL Server is not a more managable DB than Oracle: Security patches. The Windows/SQL Server world has patches on top of patches. If you have a large, scaled-out, clustered SQL Server environment, patching is an all-consuming fire. We had to decide to only patch once every 2 months. This leaves us somewhat exposed, but we had 1 DBA (me). I say "had" because I left. I am now all-Oracle all the time.

Wondering what is in store for me !

Ankit, January 20, 2009 - 4:32 pm UTC

Consider this
I m a enginering graduate passed out 6 months back and i land up a job in a firm which assigns me a DBA role, now i dont know anything about Oracle, they say project will start shortly and asked me to learn oracle by myself...they provide me the Infrastrucutre for self learning...so i learn Oracle concentrating on DBA role....and now as the project starts more and more experienced people are hired (including DBAs)...
Now i knw more about the project that its a support project of a firm based in USA.
People in my project tell me that since it is a remote support there wont be critical tasks that would be assigned to offshore support....
I m in a Quandry ...i dont knw if this would do me any good....i m enthusiastic about Oracle but i dont know if i would be able to develop my career as a DBA in current project
I know this would sound silly but from your experience what do you think about this , I can look for another job (by virtue of which i may end up having to Learn another technology )

What would you suggest me to do ?

Tom Kyte
January 20, 2009 - 7:23 pm UTC

if you are working on your own
and not having any physical contact with others
and you are completely new to Oracle

I would probably start looking around, having a mentor (for anything, not just oracle) is really important (in my opinion)

oracle dba

A reader, January 21, 2009 - 12:58 am UTC


job demand

A reader, April 27, 2009 - 11:27 pm UTC

Tom:

Which areas in your opinion do you you see increasing demand for specific oracle skills on the next 5 yeats.

oracle Developer, oracle DBA, Applications DBA etc.

what other prog languages you see picking up.

A reader, March 01, 2011 - 12:50 pm UTC

Since oracle 10g and 11g manages by itself, dbas will not find jobs anymore as earlier days. Find some better jobs. DBA jobs are no more exciting. What is your opinion Tom?
Tom Kyte
March 01, 2011 - 1:53 pm UTC

The same as what I said in the original answer.

The exact same thing I said then. Things are getting more complex, larger. There are more moving pieces than ever it seems. There is a lot of work to do.

A reader, March 08, 2011 - 12:28 pm UTC

DBA Job is no more in demand. Few companies will hire DBAs. Better find some other job in IT if you want to be employed longer.
Tom Kyte
March 08, 2011 - 2:12 pm UTC

Forecast from 1987/1990 timeframe:

Developers are not going to be needed, object oriented programming will spell the end of them. By the year 2000 - all software libraries that will ever be needed will be created - software will simply be assembled.


Didn't believe it then, don't believe it now.

Ditto for DBA's. DBA jobs are not in decline from what I've seen. If you have some hard metrics, some science, some evidence - you are just spouting off.

To A Reader: DBAs Are No Longer Needed?

Bill S., March 08, 2011 - 2:31 pm UTC

I give you 5 stars for the amusement factor.

I've been a DBA now for going on 7 years. Every year, I still hear from friends who are still DBAs who have positions available for junior DBAs.
I see positions posted across my current employer's HR site for DBAs.

I guess we are all just living on borrowed time. We should all start turning down these offers of DBA positions and switch to something like carpentry.

Oh, but there are machines now that can turn out product much faster, I guess we don't need carpenters anymore either....

Thanks, I needed a laugh today.

DBA jobs

A reader, March 08, 2011 - 5:52 pm UTC

Just curious to know, what are the best sites for finding oracle DBA or Developer positions in the US.

Is there any good reference to determine what is actually in demand by marketplace so we can build that skillset.

A reader, March 10, 2011 - 3:11 pm UTC

Try dice.com, monster.com, ladder.com

You will find DBA jobs

CREATEING A BLOG USING APEX

RAJU, August 08, 2011 - 8:40 am UTC

HI TOM,
I HAVE TWO TABLES IDEAS AND ACTIONS. IF I GIVE ONE IDEA MANY REVIEWER CAN REVIEW IT AND GIVE COMMENTS.I WHAT TO SEE ALL THE ACTION COMMENTS CORRESPONDING TO THAT IDEA.HOW TO MAKE RELATION B/T TWO TABLE CAN YOU GIVE THE TABLE STRUCTURE

The CLOUD!

Kevin R, October 25, 2011 - 8:01 am UTC

I thought that the DBA track would be relatively permanent within the I.T. world, but now I'm seeing the offers from companies (especially Amazon) for database hosting, where they handle the hosting, backup, patching and other housekeeping.

And they do it for a pretty cheap price. $0.44 per hour for a large database (~$300 per instance, per month?) . You also have the option of hosting your application servers with them (though I can't recall the price).

I feel that as time goes on, these service providers will be the only place that a DBA might be able to readily find work and the job competition will be much more fierce.

It seems to me that the "Application DBA" who designs the schemas, architecture and storage layout will become much more emphasized. This is all purely conjecture though.

Oracle DBA forever ????

Karthik, March 01, 2012 - 6:36 am UTC

Hi All,

I am working as Oracle DBA in MNC company.

When I came through this thread, I dedicated my time seriously and read all the comments and ideas and queried from 2003 to 2011.

Tom, Duke and some other experts gave some great tips.

I liked the status "what do you
like to do, what makes you get out of bed in the morning?"

Very inspiring made me to think rethink am I really loving my job..? And answer is YES!!! I love to be ORACLE DBA but am afraid because am not well equipped in Oracle as in the comments. I am still a beginner in ORACLE, sometimes when I go through few experienced authors oracle blog's like Tom, OTN forums, Don Burselon, etc... I am getting scared sometimes whether can I make it or not..

Regarding the thread, Is DBA jobs are forever for the people who are well loaded with the DBA and developer techniques...

Or ORACLE apps DBA is better option than ORACLE DBA



Tom Kyte
March 01, 2012 - 12:58 pm UTC

I am getting scared sometimes whether can I make it or not..

You can make it (be careful of what sources you use however... Use the forums to ask around and see what others would recommend highly as a resource)

When looking for resources make sure

a) they have a date on the articles, you need to know if the information is current or really out of date

b) they have a version associated with their advice - what was true for version X might not be for version Y

c) a method to ask for a clarification or post a "yeah, but what if...". Or just to ask "are you sure, this is what I am seeing which does not match what you said.."


I think (c) is the MOST important - to be able to comment on the material. (A) and (B) are just common sense - they of course should be there.



Or ORACLE apps DBA is better option than ORACLE DBA


I rarely see a DBA these days that just does "database". Most of them are more like "database application administrators", they run the database, support the applications running on the database, support and/or run the middle tier software that runs the applications and so on.

A reader, July 23, 2012 - 1:23 pm UTC

Nothing is going to DBA jobs in future. We need more DBAs to maintain the database; fine tune SQLs, database, design schemas etc.

PIYUSH MAKWANA, July 26, 2012 - 3:43 pm UTC

Hello sir,first of-all i want to say thanks for helping everyone as an experienced.
Sir i completed my BSC-IT Graduate and i want to know what is better to make carrier in JAVA,.NET,ORACLE DBA.
it's important for me to take a valuable decision now in what i have be a master ,personally i am looking for doing master in (1)ORACLE DBA or JAVA.
(2)if oracle then who have more value oracle dba,oracle dba apps,oracle dba architecture.
(3)if i choose ORACLE what i have to do to become master in ORACLE i.e. oracle dba,oracle apps dba what can make my future and can make earn better in oracle(DBA,APPS DBA,ARCHITECTURE)
and as country wise who have more value for oracle rank wise USA,UK and if i am master in oracle DBA,APPS,ARCHITECT future if then how much i can earn in UK,and in USA
waiting for your reply sir

A reader, July 27, 2012 - 4:19 am UTC

four hundred and fourty million dollars
Tom Kyte
July 30, 2012 - 9:50 am UTC

forty, no u in forty...

vinayak solunke, July 31, 2012 - 2:07 am UTC

HI Tom,

I asked this question to many but i did not get good answer. So I want to ask

what to do became a good DBA ? reading, practice etc
There are lot off documents for perfprmance tunning can you suggest me one which gives me the basic as well as advance knowlwdge
Thanks in advance
Tom Kyte
July 31, 2012 - 12:21 pm UTC

while I think reading is good - there is nothing like a mentor and hands on real world performance.


Bharath, January 06, 2013 - 8:17 am UTC

Hi Tom,

I am an system admin with 1.5 yrs of Exp.
can i go for DBA for a long time goal?
Do we have good future for it?
Please advice me on this.Thanks.

Tom Kyte
January 14, 2013 - 11:08 am UTC

just read above, asked and answered.

A reader, November 08, 2013 - 6:16 pm UTC

DBA job is demanding. I don't thing DBA jobs will go away in future.

please need help

p shruthi, April 27, 2015 - 2:40 pm UTC

im fresher in 2014 passed out.. & i alrdy trained in oracle dba.. but there is no openings especially for fresher.. i feel like disguesting,i dnt knw whats the reason for this.. if any oprtunuties are there just inform me..

Original Answer Out of Date

russellh, January 12, 2016 - 6:34 am UTC

Tom gave great advice for 2003. For 2016, not so much.

"Have you been told to give back all of the disk you no longer need since your databases are getting smaller and smaller?"

With cloud based applications, we typically don't have direct access to OS resources like disks.

"have you been ordering more disk since they are growing and growing?"

See above.

" The big question. When was the last time someone said to you "hey, its ok if the database is down frequently and for long periods." "

But that is the job of the cloud service provider. Backup and recovery are no longer our tasks. Neither is patching.

Today, and even more in the future, a service provider will rent you and app, like CRM, payroll, or accounting in the cloud. Typically you won't have any access to the OS or even the database. You won't manage a database because you won't have any access to it. For custom applications, databases can be provided as a service. You won't install it, patch it, back it up, or recover it. There will only be rare cases where you will need to maintain your own database for a custom app, but the trend is away from that. Further, it will be increasingly rare to have on premises hardware.

My company currently has less than half the DBA staff that we had in 2003, but we are doing more.

If I had to advise people considering a career as an Oracle DBA, I might steer them towards something else.



Connor McDonald
January 13, 2016 - 4:01 am UTC

I think this is a good thing.

The dullest parts of an Oracle career are the mundane things: "backup this", "copy that", "create user blah" etc etc... That's not job satisfaction to me, that's the same thing over and over and over.

If you are free'd up from doing those things, then your job becomes much more user/customer focussed:

- exploring requirements
- how to bind / integrate data
- finding value in data
- building code
- tuning code
- learning new stuff and new technologies.

Sounds ok to me

Career in Oracle DBA vs New Challenges

prakash, November 07, 2017 - 11:56 am UTC

I'm Junior Oracle DBA at small midsize company in india.
Now Whatever I told here basically in India and I hope you also give your opinion for INDIA Oracle DBA.

A) What's the future of the (Oracle) DBA in India?
B) Have any brilliant job like DBA and you get more pay-scale and more knowledge like Cloud and BigData?
C) Specific for oracle base technology, what is the best in india for doing job.
Connor McDonald
November 09, 2017 - 1:46 am UTC

AskTOM member Maria Colgan recently did a nice video on this



And I think that applies anywhere. The closer you can get to delivering *business* value (ie, knowing the key objectives of the business you are supporting, rather than just knowing that the backups worked etc), the more valuable you are.

For example, as a DBA you might be able to spot opportunities like moving from "once a night" data warehouse population to real-time population which gives the business more accurate data, and gets it to stakeholders faster.


future of database developers/Architects

Ravi B, July 17, 2019 - 7:43 pm UTC

Hello Folks,

Probably, I am not alone, here is my rant if you have patience to hear it.

I spent 15 years as an Oracle/SQL Server or "traditional" DB specialist donning various roles in "high profile" projects and jobs earning a decent salary. I recently got laid off after being in the company for the past 8 years. I see the landscape has changed. On average, the salary has dropped to 40 to 50 percent of what I was earning earlier with my experience. Ok, I know things change in tech field so I got trained in "Big Data" technologies. Now in the interview, they expect me to be a superstar programmer in Java/Python/Scala with "excellent" data structures, algorithms and design patterns background and could answer questions like "design/demonstrate algorithm of an old Nokia phone keypad functionality" or "solve classic 8 queen chess puzzle" or shadowcasting, etc. I am not a dumb person but I understand it takes time and experience to become an expert programmer in any field. No one is willing to give me a chance to get into the field and prove myself, whereas people with programming experience with Java/Scala etc could "easily" migrate as Big Data engineers with ease. Typically they earn over $200k in the bay area,CA with 5yrs experience whereas a database developer/Architect with 10yrs experience could earn 120k - 130k if they are lucky. I have talked to many hiring managers but they want candidates with an expert portfolio of programming background but they could live with "less expertise" on data side so that they could pick up the skills on the job. Is it just me or there any folks out there who are faced with this conundrum?
Chris Saxon
July 23, 2019 - 4:57 pm UTC

Sorry to hear this :(

Algorithm designing questions are common in programming interviews. Despite them having little relevance to your day-to-day job! So if you want to get through the interviews, you'll need to brush up on these.

It's kinda worrying that programming skills are considered "necessary", but data skill could be picked up on the job. To me they are just as valuable & necessary!

Good luck!

RE: "they expect me to be a superstar programmer in Java/Python/Scala"

Mr Sunset-of-his-Career, July 23, 2019 - 6:30 pm UTC

Seems similar to my experience in the Midwest this year; I started setting my job search parameters to exclude the term "big data". That reduced my "hits" dramatically, but focused on my "dinosaur database" skill set.

IMO it's due to a "revenge of the software nerds" who:
1. question (perhaps rightly) the need and cost of a full-blown DBMS (transaction-isolation and other OLTP features) for OLAP purposes: manipulating read-only vast data sets.
2. glory in object-oriented 3GLs like Java/Python/Scala.